serious moral questions

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serious moral questions

Post by Caboov on Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:35 am

Ok so a lot of scanlators are raising hell about watermarks, following release rules, big reader sites and a whole bunch of stuff.
The role of a scanlator is to bring the joy of manga that can't get an international license into the hands of an international community.
This is the way I see it. Big scanlation reader sites are good.
If it wasn't for big reader sites like Mangafox, Mangareader, and the now deceased Onemanga, I would not have 5 loose-leaf sheets of paper filled with manga titles from a variety of authors and genres that I either want to read, are reading, or have completed.
I also would have never found Angry Fox and become a member. Sites like these give life to the manga reading world. Instead of a bunch of bookmarks to a dozen or so scanlator websites or blogs, you have a convenience store of manga titles you can read for free at the expense of other's hard work.

If you don't like the watermarks that big readers put on some pages, (and there are some legitimately good wallpaper worthy pages sometimes) go to the scanlators' sites and download the chapter. Some people don't want to download chapters because they're paranoid that everything that one downloads contains a virus. That's why readers present it to you for you. It's also why many scanlating groups have their own readers.

If a manga is licensed then most big readers take down the chapters (not mangareader though they suck at this). This gets you to go out, support the author and have an offline capable version for people who still have lives or people who experience blackouts. It also prevents them from being sued.

Release rules are another thing. Yes it would be nice if the big readers would direct some of their traffic to the scanlators' sites so that avid readers can communicate to the ones who work hard and leave a word of gratitude but rules aren't going to get you far... everybody is on the big reader's site! Even if you only wait 2 or 3 days to post it on the big reader site, people will not know that you released it until that day unless they follow you closely. Most don't.

Most people don't understand what IRC is. I myself am still having trouble grasping its definition.

I'm sorry this turned into an essay but there are just some logical ideas that I needed to lay out on the table. Opinionate this and

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Re: serious moral questions

Post by B-Werx on Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:33 am

For most scanlators, I can understand why some of them go nuts over some watermarks being splashed all over their works. It's not so clear to me as to who is having what problems with the watermarks, some manga sites put watermarks on the pages of the mangas they host ie. Mangareader, Mangafox on the other hand, adds an extra tab below the images with disclaimer notices. These things make "Quality Freaks" flip their lid saying that those sites butchered their work because of that. But there are groups who actually put big watermarks on their works like binktopia, which is sometimes annoying, there are also raw providers that stamp huge watermarks on their raws as well, like the now deceased Manga Raws. Now putting those together, raw provider watermark + Scanlator watermark + manga reader site watermark = chaos. I think that one of the things that are adding heat to the growing friction between scanlators and big manga sites are the growing demands of the scanlator for control over their works and the usual refusal of the big manga site to listen to those demands. The awful part is that the scanlators sometimes make outrageous demands that some people grow tired of keeping up with them.
It's a very complicated and messy topic. We're just trying to keep things plain and simple, unlike other stuck up groups. AFS actually spawned from MangaFox, the name of the group is actually a pun on the official (now dead) scanlation group of MangaFox called Angry Candy. Since our group was formed from a manga reader site, we try to be friendly with them. Rather than work on our projects for money, we do it just for the fun of it, other groups start off with that thought in mind, but somewhere along the way they lose that attitude and they end up stuck up in the end.

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Re: serious moral questions

Post by Clodololo on Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:22 pm

But there is still something about mangafox that bother scanteams. It's the fact that, with the enormous number of visitors and ads on mangafox (scrolling bar, etc), they earn a bunch of money.
Simply put, mangafox get most of the reader + extra $$ on the back of scanteams who do what they do for free. I think there is something to be upset about but... what can we do about that ? I, myself, was no different than most of the readers. Just going on mangafox and co, checking updates, reading and closing firefox without a word of thanks for the scanlations groups who did all the work.

I've change, thanks to that kind of topic, but hardly find the time/motivation to go subscribe on a forum, finding the topic and thanking them (in english, with which I have problem to speak and forgive me if your eyes are bleeding ! xP).

Returning to the subject, I think watermark aren't a bad way for teams to attract/oblige more readers to go on their own websites. A way to prevent some readers sites to make profit on their back.
However, somes aren't bad, like Batoto, who seems to respect releasing date, give all information about the scans team site, etc.
In the end, watermarked or not, we need that kind of website which give you a tool. A tool allowing you to check the updates of a huge list of manga in a single glimps.

I may have go astray, made a mistake or misunderstood something. After all, even if I've been reading manga since 8 years ago on the net, I'm inexperienced about the debates and evolutions of the communities that gravitate around our loved mangas.

Clodololo, the Noob King.

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Re: serious moral questions

Post by B-Werx on Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:44 pm

I understand that feeling. Even I was thinking of putting up watermarks on our releases, but it would be going against what AFS originally stood for. Early today we just released FukuNeko, after months of setbacks it finally saw the light of day. After every release it has been my habit to check Google how far it had gone on the internet, but then I found this...


It's been soiled! NOOOOOOOO!! nooo!

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Re: serious moral questions

Post by Clodololo on Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:44 pm

There really is people out of here with no shame...

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Re: serious moral questions

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